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cones & sizing
Tony Raven
#1 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2011 12:20:37 PM(UTC)
Rank: Guitar God
Tony Raven
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I'm hiving this off from another thread, as I think it's a great topic itself.
Originally Posted by: jgauker Go to Quoted Post
Our bass player uses a Low Down 400 head with an old cabinet with a generic 15" speaker and it sounds pretty good to me. ... But I still think he could do better with a different cabinet. But I've always been one to like the tighter low end that 10" speakers give the bass. 15 and 18 inch speakers seem to add a little mud when used with bass amps. I honestly think the are better suited as PA speakers.

At a repair shop (south Snelling, St. Paul MN), I once had an opportunity to buy a 30" speaker. Scared Okay, it woulda LOOKED cool as all heck, maybe hang it behind someone's service counter as a display piece... but c'mon.

(I've since heard that the huge one-piece paper cone was prone to flutter at certain sustained frequencies, which would suddenly shred. Hmm: maybe metal cones...? Whistle )

There are many 15"-18" speakers that are billed as "PA/bass guitar" by the manufacturer. That seems to be a holdover from the days before everyone & his dog had a purposed subwoofer, something specifically intended to reach those tones at & below the bottom of actual hearing.

If I was to mess around with a 15, I'd set it up as a biamp or even triamp, maybe cut at 500 Hz, so that it could stick with the super-low tones & not have to struggle with mids & highs, which would likely clean it up... but that's really below anything musical & well into the visceral -- that is, you feel it in your feet & guts, down with a padded kick drum.

For bass guitar, to get a good thump without so much vague thud, a 2-12 or 4-10 seems to be plenty sufficient. For large venues, just double the cone count. Even then, many players will benefit with a 2- or even 3-way cab -- a horn for rich mids & a whizzer to access the snap.

Putting a cab on a guitar is generally MUCH easier than for bass. A bassist needs to dig down toward subsonics, yet (say for jazz & such) wants to both access the middle of the sonic wall to have some small presence with the other instruments, & to get some shimmer (particularly for slap/snap playing). Speaking as a guitarist, it's cool to be able to shake the floor, but that really is the bassist's job, especially in recording.

Cone size aside, my experience is that a proper bass-guitar speaker should have at least a 2" coil, & very long throw. (Don't quote me, but I'm pretty sure the 30" had like a 1.5" coil, which just screams "PA speaker.")

One reason I'm drawn to the Avatar loaded cabs is that they custom-ordered Eminence Delta LF12 speakers with bigger magnets & longer throw. And their 15" cab is a three-way!! A 6" paper-cone mid, & the big cone gets everything below 800 Hz, & the box is specifically tuned for those low-lows.
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Steve
#2 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2011 12:59:50 PM(UTC)
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Steve
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Hey Tony just get a pair of these.
http://www.gizmowatch.co...worlds-largest-speaker/

Better yet one of these 30,000 watt 165 db speakers
No one within 5 miles would need to buy prune juice.
http://www.prefixmag.com/forum/prefix-forum/3113/

One guy I know insists on using an old Kustom 250 watt guitar amp with 3 - 15" speakers for his bass.
I tell him it doesn't sound very musical but may as well talk to a wall.
There are some nice recordings with excellent beautiful base tone. Some of the Beatles and Motown have some nice bass tone to name a couple.
Swamp Yankee
#3 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2011 6:13:52 PM(UTC)
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10s vs 15s - nearly a religious war for some. I like both (and 12's) in different situations. Full-range 15s with a Precision-type bass can do great things - classic rock, blues, motown. It wasn't that long ago that nearly everyone used 15s for bass. Except for those late 50s Fender Bassman amps with the 10s, which were lousy as bass amps, but oh-so-awesome for guitar.

I do like 10s or 12s for funk and jazz stuff. Good 10s can even handle the low B fairly well usually. I'm not sure about the cutoffs for coils & magnets for good tone, however. Not my specialty. But I do know that cabinet construction and materials are more important for bass cabs than guitar cabs. Things get shaken apart and speakers come off of baffles. I've even heard arguments that particle board made better bass cabs. Not sure about that one.

And I've heard some fabulous guitar amps with 15s - Peavey Delta Blues, Fender 75, Fender Concert 115, Fender VibroVerbs. Full range - just one 15".

So lets not be too quick on the bi-amp, lest we introduce phase distortion needlessly.

Tony Raven
#4 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2011 11:03:06 PM(UTC)
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Tony Raven
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Joined: 12/5/2009(UTC)
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Location: Northern Tier, EEUU
I can certainly see using a 15 for guitar, as it trades off the super-high end in favor of rich mids. And unlike a bass, those tones wouldn't be crushed by the super-low end (both signal & cone). Plus, though I'm too lazy to check any specs, I'm fair certain a 1-15 is lighter than a 2-12 as well (those magnets add up quickly).

If I was going to biamp rather than use a passive crossover, I'd probably be giving the two runs some physical separation anyway. If the stage was too small for that... no, strike that thought: even in a very-small club, doing sit-down jazzy music, I'd probably drive the low-end cab(s) into the wall & bounce the midrange cabs toward center.

That sort of phase distortion sounds like the kind of problem I'd like to be able to justify. Love

A cheaply made guitar cab can sound pretty good, so long as everything's bolted up & glued down properly. But, yeah, I've rarely been excited by a loose bass cab -- open-back just confuses me, & cheap materials in a closed-back would mean the box would tend to "breathe" a bit with the compression waves, so there could be resonance problems. That's one reason I'd maybe shy away from four-speaker bass cabs: the unsupported center.
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