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Beware Bumblebee Cap Hype!
Will Chen
#1 Posted : Tuesday, January 17, 2012 11:02:36 AM(UTC)

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Will Chen
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Beware the hype folks. There is a ton of voodoo BS about vintage electronic components which simply isn't scientifically supported. Sure, some rare component that's drifted way out of spec may impart a unique tone. But is that tone really magically better or simply different? Would a modern component which speced the same impart the same results? More importantly, could you objectively tell the difference? Chances are unless you've sourced it yourself out of a vintage circuit or surplus store and understand exactly why/what you're looking for...someone is taking advantage of your lack of knowledge regarding electronics. Gibson charges $133 for their bumblebee capacitors...yet dissection reveals they are simply wrapping a .50 capacitor in a bumblebee coat. From a post a couple years ago at mylespaul.com.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5F6-A [at mylespaul.com]
There were some doubts about how real the new Gibson bumblebee caps were. I was told by a friend the caps that Gibson installs these days in its Historic Custom Shop guitars weren't real bumblebees at all. We wanted to find out for sure so my pal ( who is a vet ) x-rayed one and opened one from his R9 LP. This is the result:

Photo of both caps. One is real and the other one is a modern cap labeled as bumbleblee cap by Gibson :



We x-ray the real one and this is the result:



We x-ray the new one and ... What the heck is this?



My friend got his pen knife out and found a decent ( yet plastic ) Wesco capacitor within the fancier bumblebee clone:







Isn't that outrageous or what??!!
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BigT on 1/17/2012(UTC)
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BigT
#2 Posted : Tuesday, January 17, 2012 8:48:21 PM(UTC)
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BigT
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I'm glad you posted that. I simply cannot bring myself to believe that a bit of electronics that falls within certain specs has any discernible difference from any similar bit with the same specs...
jgauker
#3 Posted : Wednesday, January 18, 2012 8:10:54 AM(UTC)
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Wanna be musicians with a lot of money will believe anything. When it comes down to it, fresh capacitors that have not deteriorated should sound better, no matter what the material. Same with NOS tubes and other equipment from old amps and speakers. We need to apply blind listening tests when testing equipment, we would very surprised about what actually sounds good to us without the visual stimulation.
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Will Chen
#4 Posted : Wednesday, January 18, 2012 4:36:44 PM(UTC)

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Will Chen
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There are many who will praise certain caps for imparting a magical tone and I just don't get it. Electronically in a guitar tone circuit, the capacitor's role is determining the cutoff frequency sent to ground. In other words, the output of your guitar never passes though the capacitor in a standard tone circuit. Actually the inverse occurs, the signal passing through the cap is going to ground and is not heard. So how can a cap have "tone" when what you hear never passes through the cap? I'd love to try a double blind test some day to see if anyone could could tell a difference...
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big_teee
#5 Posted : Wednesday, January 18, 2012 6:18:50 PM(UTC)
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I have watched this before it is an interesting test.
You be the judge.
http://www.youtube.com/w...TqS4&feature=fvwrel
B_T
Will Chen
#6 Posted : Wednesday, January 18, 2012 10:44:33 PM(UTC)

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I've seen this before. Listen to the vid without reading the caps and see how different they sound. The difference is largely inconsequential, no way I could pick out one which was any better than the rest or even really different other than a few sounding a touch darker (one cap at least one did not spec the same and another I don't believe he even stated the value). Also, how did he judge the cap values? Did he actually measure them to ensure they were all the same as there is variance even on new caps. I stand by my statement, there are a great many mods which can radically alter a guitar's tone. A cap ain't one of them. Any player with some years under their belt could create a greater variance in tone by simply modifying the angle of pick attack.
Check out my music: http://willchentrio.com | http://www.reverbnation.com/willchentrio
big_teee
#7 Posted : Thursday, January 19, 2012 12:11:03 AM(UTC)
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I mess with Cap Values, but which one is best, who knows.
I had some premium Sozo Caps left from my Amp build.
I really liked the sound of those.
If my guitar is too trebly I use a higher Value Cap.
If the guitar is too Dark & muddy, I try less value caps.
I like the way on a Les Paul you have 2 Tone controls.
I usually put a .022, or a .033uf For the neck pickup.
I usually put a .047, or .050uf on the bridge.
It Depends on the tone of the guitar.
On Strat guitars, if you want the older vintage tone?
I always use a .1uf Disk Cap, Like Fender did 50s, 60s, and 70s.
Good Luck,
Terry
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BigT on 1/19/2012(UTC)
Tony Raven
#8 Posted : Thursday, January 19, 2012 12:35:40 AM(UTC)
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This topic actually brings up a few issues, so here's some scattered thoughts in reply.

In a powered circuit, two caps that spec out essentially the same may respond quite differently. In such a situation, therefore, it could well make a difference whether it's mylar or "lemon drop" or disk or whatever.

But in a passive & weak circuit like rolling off pickup tone, it really can't make much nevermind. True, if you're talking supermegahot humbuckers, the sort that could darned near spark a gap if you nail a power chord, maybe that's enough juice to make a discernible difference. But a vintage-spec PAF? Nah.

What catches me here is the fraud that Gibson is perpetrating. Bad enough that they're selling a vastly overpriced gewgaw as somehow "just like the original," but looking at that two-shot, you'd think that their counterfeit would at least look like what it's SUPPOSED to look like. Jeez -- if I'm gonna pay (at all) for a forgery, I'd at least want a GOOD forgery.

It capitalizes on ignorance. IME, plain ol' caps -- not electrolytic -- last bloody forever unless they're actually cracked or exploded. I've reused caps from 1930s radio circuits!! The exception would be really ancient waxed-paper jobbies, but even many of those would do just fine in a passive circuit. It'd make a LOT more sense to spec a "classic" cap for its actual capacitance, & find something on the shelf that tests to the same value.

Every fool with more money than sense thinks he's going to "recap" stuff & magically get some "classic" tone. I wouldn't encourage this... but if some halfwit's waving his $100 in my face, I'd be glad to do the work. Dancing

In working guitars, I prefer to replace brown ceramic disks with greenies, because the former get pretty beat-up with the years; I've pulled a few that were snapped in half. Greenies are cheap & common, & in passive tone circuits I can't see where bright colors (orange, yellow, bumblebee) will make a difference.
Axeman69
#9 Posted : Tuesday, January 24, 2012 11:08:19 AM(UTC)
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GIBSON, has sunk to an ALL time new LOW! CAN they go ANY lower?
jgauker
#10 Posted : Tuesday, January 24, 2012 1:34:37 PM(UTC)
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I do like the color orange, green, or yellow better than the tannish brown. So it must sound better right? Shhh d'oh!
Your wish is at my command
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