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basic music theory
Tony Raven
#1 Posted : Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:06:46 AM(UTC)
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And I mean REALLY basic -- how much do you apply it to your own playing?

I can barely read sheet music. There's four or five human languages I can puzzle out more easily. The staff is primarily a timing guide for me.

Some years ago, I was talking to a friend, a classically trained pianist. We happened upon basic boogie-woogie blues, & I said, "Oh, yeah -- a one-four-five progression." She had absolutely no idea what I was talking about (I-IV-V). I was fascinated that someone who is so theory-bound as to find it almost impossible to improvise didn't understand.

I poked around a little. She didn't grasp a "suspended fourth" except as dots on paper. When I said the chord creates tension looking for resolution, she went totally blank -- guess her teachers never hinted at the emotional or psychological underpinnings of music.

She was a bit unsure what I was referring to with a 5th, 4th, or 3rd.

So there I was, an illiterate talking waaay over her head. Anyone else had such experiences?

If you were teaching a new guitarist or bassist, what theory would you foist on them?
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veegee
#2 Posted : Monday, December 27, 2010 10:51:13 AM(UTC)
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If you are talking to a classically trained musician - it's really like an American talking to a Brit. It's the same language, but the nuances are different. There is no reason for them to know I-IV-V, that is a communication tool pertaining specifically to pop music. (When I say pop music, I mean rock, country, soul). It helps us communicate in a band situation to quickly put a song together. Whereas a classical musician is going to hand out sheet music to communicate the same thing. You won't hear them say, let's do Beethoven's sixth in G, it's starts on the I, then goes to the VI ... etc. The emotional/psychological underpinnings of music are also written on the sheet music for the classical musician. The way they interpret those directions is where the musician adds their own emotion/personal touch.

My sister is a classically trained violinist. She has no idea how to improvise, doesn't need to, but she understands the different scales/modes and how they are used to improvise. It is just a daunting task to her, she will literally break out in a sweat. Her husband is a classically trained cellist, he will break out into Led Zep on that cello at a moment's notice and will also take a lead. It is fantastic. He gets both genre's, likes it, practices it and is comfortable with it.

So, back to your question, what would you teach a new guitarist or bassist? If they just want to play in a band - I'd teach them I-IV-V stuff. If they want to be a studio musician, I'd tell them to learn how to read music, practice their scales and send them to GIT in LA
Tony Raven
#3 Posted : Monday, December 27, 2010 12:16:51 PM(UTC)
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Speaking of studio work, I'm still trying to wrap my brain around the "Nashville number system":

http://www.taxi.com/transmitter/1006/chart.htm

I get it at first, then a bar like
<6><5> -- 4 1/3 -- 2sus 2 -- 5 4 1/3
makes my head hurt again...
Will Chen
#4 Posted : Monday, December 27, 2010 4:58:24 PM(UTC)

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Agreed. Classical to pop is a completely different theory animal. I had to take both Jazz theory and traditional classical theory when I was studying music at UNT and I-IV-V is as foreign to classical players as a French/Italian 6th is to jazz. In classical theory, the "sus" concept falls into the realm of cadence (and false cadence). Classical theorists can analyze almost anything down to a substitution of a (plagal)IV-1 or (perfect)V-1 cadence.

As to music theory, well I'm actually pretty well trained (you could probably already tell from above). I can read music well, but am not a great sight reader. I'll need to run through a tune a few times to get it under my fingers and it takes longer as the number of flats and sharps increase. I know the majority of the traditional modes by heart but gravitate towards a few, not really comfortable with any of the harmonic minor modes (I know you said basic, sorry!).

Now, as to how much I apply while playing? Well that's weird. Typically I analyze the piece before hand looking at the changes and what chordal and scalar melodic ideas I might use. When I play, my mind is most often blank. In fact, I'm nearly always surprised when I listen to play back...
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Tony Raven
#5 Posted : Monday, December 27, 2010 7:28:01 PM(UTC)
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Thank heavens for the occasional Internet gem:
http://www.guitarmasterclass.ne...index.php?showtopic=6023

I find that I skim through something like this, getting up to the point where I can actually PLAY something... & then I'm good to go back to the beginning & figure out what's being said, once I've given my ears a little cue as to what's going on.

Given this sort of intro/overview, I'm able to at least take a run at asking semi-intelligent questions!!
samhell
#6 Posted : Wednesday, December 29, 2010 7:09:00 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Tony Raven Go to Quoted Post
I poked around a little. She didn't grasp a "suspended fourth" except as dots on paper. When I said the chord creates tension looking for resolution, she went totally blank -- guess her teachers never hinted at the emotional or psychological underpinnings of music.


I find this sad as I have a theory that music IS THE language of emotion. Words alone cannot truly evoke emotion in another human (as in relay someone elses emotion as a communication method, not piss someone off or make them sad or whatever).
jgauker
#7 Posted : Thursday, December 30, 2010 9:30:24 AM(UTC)
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For most of our shows we have a 3 peice horn section. We have several people for each position. Just due to the availability we have a Baritone Sax, Trumpet, and Tenor Sax. Some of these guys are Music teachers from the Elementary to College Music Professor level. We have charts for all the horm parts. Only a couple of the horn players can't rip into a solo or just improvise on anything. We have a couple of the guys that are actually very impressive and have toured with big name acts.

Our lead guitarist and our bass player are musically trained and our bass player has built up the charts with the help of Finale.

Yes, we would like to have a trombone player but for some reason there aren't many available.

I am pretty much a feel and listen type guitarist. Somehow we make it work.
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